Ultimate Dolph

Believe it or not, I saw the original AVATAR (2009) for the very first time a couple days ago, and even though I was aware its parallels with MOW, I couldn't stop thinking about the whole way through.

I notably realized that it's kind of a "slow burn" before the action kicks in for the third act, and this is how the original John Sayles script of MOW / A SAFE PLACE was structured as well. So I'm thinking it could have been more powerful if they had kept that intact instead of throwing a few additional action sequences here and there throughout the film...

Same here Jox, i couldn't help but to notice similarities between the two, but personally, i really like both films, each for different reasons. I always found it funny to see comments on reviews of Men Of War from others who feel the same way. And let's just say, there were more than few people who liked Men Of War more than Avatar

However, i don't think i would say how Sayles beat Cameron when it comes to writing similar story. Reason for that is, and i could be wrong here so feel free to correct me, but SAFE PLACE was written around '83 or something, right?

Well, around 1981, either before or around the time he first started developing the story and screenplay for Terminator, Cameron also came up with something similar to Avatar. Although, from what i heard thanks to someone who talked with Randall Frakes himself, it wasn't fully developed until 1991, when Cameron was still busy working on Terminator 2, which is when he and Frakes wrote the story treatment and titled it SCREAMING STEEL. It was a futuristic action thriller taking place in ruins of what's left of L.A., and it was about teenage streets gangs on what i can best describe as "flying motorbikes", similar to Air Bikes from Judge Dredd (1995), fighting evil and corrupt police and army run by "rich elites" from the city.

The main hero was basically someone who just like Nick from Men Of War, and Jake from Avatar, finds himself in situation where he at first is not sure about working/living with "other side", but more times he spends with them and learning their ways, and even falls in love with female member of the gang, he realizes he was on the wrong side before and he joins the teenage gang and eventually leads them to battle the actual bad guys of the story, which he was a part of before.

Frakes wrote the first draft of the script, and then Cameron hired at least few more writers to write other versions based on their story and Frakes's script, but the film was never made. However, i have to say, just based on 1991 draft by J.F. Lawton i have, Cameron definitely took a lot from it for Avatar.

Just some fun unproduced movie history trivia for you Jox. Hope you're doing alright, and wish you lot of luck and joy in 2023!

Gunner wrote:However, i don't think i would say how Sayles beat Cameron when it comes to writing similar story. Reason for that is, and i could be wrong here so feel free to correct me, but SAFE PLACE was written around '83 or something, right?

It was 1986-87. I was just pointing out the similarities.

Thanks for the info on SCREAMING STEEL, it's one Cameron project I hadn't heard of.

And thank you for your new year's wishes, right back at you!

And now here is the beginning of AI-generated publicity...

Here is MOW for Prime on Amazon.co.uk...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Men-War-Dolph- ... C64&sr=1-2
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=dolph+lund ... -desc-rank

I'm not a huge fan of those AI stuff. For me it's ugly as h*ll, even it really looks like Dolph
It raises an interesting question though, as actors tend to have different reactions to it : Anil Kapoor wins at a court and his physical likenss and voice can't be use by AI. I don't have an example of an actor selling his rights though (there was a rumor about Bruce Willis)

Trivia : Andrew Pfeffer, producer of MoW is also a producer of the Toxic Avenger remake (yeah, i was a troma fanin my teenage years, and I still like to watch TA from times to times)

bomaz wrote:I'm not a huge fan of those AI stuff. For me it's ugly as h*ll, even it really looks like Dolph

It is ugly as hell... and I don't even think it looks like D at all.

Since Dolph has a fight with Trevor Goddard (who played Kano) here, some time ago I've used it's modified and re-scored version in my fanedit of Mortal Kombat. So now Dolph is in Mortal Kombat It is basically an opening scene. if somebody wants to see it, PM me.

Forgot to mention that since late October, we are in the 30th anniversary of the MOW principal photography...!

RIP producer Stan Rogow...

He's the one who initiated the MOW project (then A SAFE PLACE) and hired John Sayles to script it in the mid-80s. Rogow also worked with Sayles on THE CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR starring Daryl Hannah. But he's mostly known for TV series such as FAME and LIZZIE MCGUIRE.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv ... 235732090/
(Nice to see MOW mentioned)

https://deadline.com/2023/12/hilary-duf ... 235660382/

A bit off-topic, but yesterday I watched "City of Hope", written and directed by Sayles. And what a terrific movie. A great social drama with epic scale. Cast is top notch, the direction is sensible and well crafted (long tracking shots that end with reverse angle) and the writing is nuanced and also very well made, tackling issues like corruption, racism and justice (the movie sadly didn't really age on this). I highly recommend it (but there is no Dolph material at all in it though ).

That's a pretty rare film, I've been wanting to see it since the 90s, I don't think there's a Blu-ray or even a DVD, where did you see it?

Sayles' directorial career is very interesting, it's amazing how he's balanced being a script doctor on huge Hollywood blockbusters and making these self-financed indie films that are often politically engaged leftist social dramas.

I haven't seen everything but saw a good part of his films, the last one I saw was GO FOR SISTERS (2013) which was pretty strong.

If he wasn't a writer-director, Sayles could have become a social activist fighting for change on the picket lines and elsewhere...

You can find some of his views in much of the subtext in MEN OF WAR, where he notably plays with and makes fun of the "white savior" complex and the US imperialistic capitalism...

Jox wrote:That's a pretty rare film, I've been wanting to see it since the 90s, I don't think there's a Blu-ray or even a DVD, where did you see it?

I believe there's been some legal issues preventing it from being released on DVD. Or at least that was the case a few years ago when I tried to find it. Although it looks like you can rent it on Amazon Prime nowadays!

Yes, sadly I had to go above the law* to see it


* pun intended in french

* pun understood haha!

I saw ”City of Hope” on Swedish TV. Must have been almost 25 years ago and I remember it as very good. The last shot still sort of sticks in my mind to this day even as I have forgotten much of the plot.