THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

An area for discussion of Dolph's past, present & future movies!

Moderator: Moderators

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby alex.sp89 on 17 Feb 2022, 13:20

a couple of separate deleted scenes that are not on the workprint and that apparently were in a version once broadcasted on Japanese television

Interesting in the fact that those 2 deleted scenes were shown on Jap. TV. It happens so rare when the international broadcast shows extended version instead of US TV. Maybe it is their policy to release the movie in a full 90 minutes without end credits instead of truncated 85 min original theatrical cut version without end credits. Or maybe they have deleted some violence from R, Unrated cut and were forced to insert something.
Jox, Goldblatt has the workprint only on BETA. But who owns the original negatives, reels of footage and all that stuff after New World Pictures defunct ? They should be stored somewhere ?
alex.sp89
Member
 
Posts: 359
Joined: 02 Apr 2019, 16:27

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby Jox on 18 Feb 2022, 11:53

alex.sp89 wrote:Or maybe they have deleted some violence from R, Unrated cut and were forced to insert something.

They are not violent scenes, one shows Berkowitz emptying his desk when he quits (after having seen Castle in jail), the one sees him visiting Sam Leary at the hospital and then being kidnapped by the mob when he gets back to his car.

Image

What I suspect happened is that the Japanese distributor received video copies of dailies or earlier cuts of the movie and somehow ended up inserting some of them for this TV version for some reason...

Jox, Goldblatt has the workprint only on BETA. But who owns the original negatives, reels of footage and all that stuff after New World Pictures defunct ? They should be stored somewhere ?

The negative of the final released cut must be somewhere, but the reels of dailies and deleted scenes and prologue are likely lost or destroyed. (And since the movie was shot and partly edited in Australia makes it worse).

The storage of film elements is a big issue because it takes so much warehouse space and costs money to keep, especially for small or medium-sized companies so prints and elements are regularly destroyed.

And in the case of companies that disappear such as New World it's even worse because materials get all over the place, are not archived properly, and the new owners don't necessarily know the films well enough so they'd know what they might have.

If any of the titles were big successes or recipient of awards and acclaim, they'd care more about keeping stuff, but imagine in the 90s, they wouldn't think much of an exploitation title like THE PUNISHER...
User avatar
Jox
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23038
Joined: 08 Nov 2003, 23:03

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby alex.sp89 on 18 Feb 2022, 13:14

Thanks Jox. What a pity that negatives of all deleted scenes , prologue have been lost forever. Dead Head also a New World Pictures movie and Goldblatt directorial debut, received a television extended cut and many deleted scenes (almost 17 minutes) survived in vaults and The Punisher (1989) - much superior movie was abandoned... On the other hand is hard to believe that someone can destroy millions of dollars invested once in a product. Only when some incidents happen - a fire for example that destroyed all lost footage from The Highlander (1986) with Lambert in the lead.

Honestly today when I see all this zombie, horror movies remastered by Blue Underground, Shout Factory etc got tons of special features (bts, deleted scenes, outtakes), never got a good worldwide VHS release, and the most of them skipped DVD era shine today as Oscar recipients or have some historical and cultural impact in movie history and all their movie reels footage have been been kept as a treasure by someone when they even didn't have audience or cult following. Or B action movies like Martial Law 1-2 got Collector's Editions by Vynegar Syndrome with tons of supplements, deleted scenes etc - movies that simply were direct to video released. Strange, strange, strange.

It is good that Showdown in Little Tokyo (1991) was made by Warner Bros (big company) they for sure keep all their movies stored well and invest money for the storage space even for lower budgeted movies (8-10 mil.). They are lazy to release special features etc. of their classic action movies or think the time didn't come to be shown to the audience...
alex.sp89
Member
 
Posts: 359
Joined: 02 Apr 2019, 16:27

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby lhz on 18 Feb 2022, 21:10

Jox wrote:Image-wise, the transfer is the same as the second German fully HD uncut version, but the Japanese disc has a better track in lossless DTS-HD MA 2.0 instead of Dolby Digital 2.0...

The special features are the same (workprint cut, audio commentary, BTS reel, trailers) but the Japanese edition adds a couple of separate deleted scenes that are not on the workprint and that apparently were in a version once broadcasted on Japanese television. (These scenes are therefore dubbed in Japanese.)

Thanks Jox for the usual detailed specs. Then this Japanese version is slightly superior to the German one. I will try to get it one of those days even if I m almost sure it will cost a high amount of money to import it after my first check around eBay...
User avatar
lhz
Member
 
Posts: 100
Joined: 30 Oct 2009, 22:50
Location: France

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby Jox on 19 Feb 2022, 21:31

Garth Ennis briefly gives his take on THE PUNISHER '89 (around the 27:35 mark):
“That old Dolph Lundgren movie, even though it's very much a B movie, is if you think about it, the most honest attempt to capture the Punisher.”

https://www.comicbookcouplescounseling. ... -interview
User avatar
Jox
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23038
Joined: 08 Nov 2003, 23:03

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby Jox on 22 Feb 2022, 21:24

Screenwriter-turned-director Boaz Yakin in Josh Olson / Joe Dante's great podcast THE MOVIES THAT MADE ME
https://trailersfromhell.com/podcast/boaz-yakin/
User avatar
Jox
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23038
Joined: 08 Nov 2003, 23:03

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby Scorpio on 23 Feb 2022, 21:23

I just found this review about the Blu-ray edition of the film edited in Australia:

https://theactionelite.com/the-punisher ... RsbcUcsPU0

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Puni ... ay/151650/

Is this really the best edition of the movie in the world?
I think the French edition also contains all 3 cuts of the film:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Puni ... ay/124156/
User avatar
Scorpio
Member
 
Posts: 117
Joined: 03 May 2010, 20:51
Location: Spain

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby Jox on 23 Feb 2022, 21:46

Does it have the most special features? Yes (because it has two additional interviews with Mark Goldblatt and Dolph that the other editions don't have).

Is it the most accessible and most talked about? Yes (because it's region-free whereas the others are either region B or A)

Is it the best edition of the film? NO!

Here is why: the unrated cut (not to be confused with the workprint) is in SD (equal to a DVD) definition and the unrated shots were sourced from a Laserdisc source...

Since then the Germans at Koch Media found a French 35mm vintage print to restore the unrated bits to full HD.

The fully HD version can only be found in the newer Koch Media* re-releases and the Japanese edition (which also has a lossless DTS-HD sound track instead of Dolby Digital -- also the sound on the R-rated cut is sourced from a mono track and falsely advertised as DTS-HD MA 2.0 and 5.1...).



* A reminder that Koch Media initially were the first to invest in a special edition back in 2013 and its thanks to them we've got access to the director's audio commentary, on-set gag reel, and this workprint transfert.. Then the subsequent international distributors bought those extras from them.

I've already written an appendice of my book about the various and best VHS, LD, DVD, Blu-ray editions of the film, I realise there is so much confusion between those BR editions and the different cuts of the movie that I'll probably have to include more details and explanations...
User avatar
Jox
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23038
Joined: 08 Nov 2003, 23:03

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby Scorpio on 23 Feb 2022, 23:08

Spectacular information, it can not be explained better. :D
Years ago I bought the Blu-ray edition that was published in my country, which, honestly, was a garbage edition.
After all these data, I think I'm going to buy the German edition of Koch Media. Thanks Jox! :wink:
User avatar
Scorpio
Member
 
Posts: 117
Joined: 03 May 2010, 20:51
Location: Spain

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby Jox on 23 Feb 2022, 23:29

Glad it was clear and helpful!

Just make sure you get one of these (not the 2013 Mediabook because it was not fully restored then):

Image

I think the Steelbook is out of print but the Amaray and VHS-box must still be found quite easily.
User avatar
Jox
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23038
Joined: 08 Nov 2003, 23:03

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby Scorpio on 24 Feb 2022, 00:31

I love the Steelbook, I'll try to get it, but if I can't find it, I'll go for the VHS edition, the Japanese edition is very expensive...

https://www.amazon.es/Dolph-Lundgren-Pu ... 72&sr=1-52
User avatar
Scorpio
Member
 
Posts: 117
Joined: 03 May 2010, 20:51
Location: Spain

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby lhz on 24 Feb 2022, 02:57

Scorpio wrote:I just found this review about the Blu-ray edition of the film edited in Australia:

https://theactionelite.com/the-punisher ... RsbcUcsPU0

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Puni ... ay/151650/

Is this really the best edition of the movie in the world?

I completely forgot the existence of this Australian edition (it was stored in the back of one of my shelves) since I bought the uncut SD mediabook and later the uncut HD steelbook from the good folks of Koch Media. Plus the Australian reversible cover with the comics-style draw is really not my cup of tea.
I got the UK and (I think) the NL one too but they got nothing special.

Scorpio wrote:I love the Steelbook, I'll try to get it, but if I can't find it, I'll go for the VHS edition, the Japanese edition is very expensive...

The steelbook price literally skyrocketed over the previous months and is no longer available unless you spend a minimum of 120€.
I am still looking for the Japanese edition as it is technically speaking the very best with the exclusive DTS-HD audio track but I can't find a good deal. And since my friends who went to Japan stop going there due to Covid, I can't even ask them to bring me back a copy...

When you think of THE PUNISHER during the dvd era and all of these hideous, bootleg editions and now we have plenty of releases to choose in HD. Who could have imagined that ?

Thanks Jox for the usual clear-crystal explanations regarding the differences between releases. I noticed on twitter that you mention a limited media book release from Koch Media. One got the cover from L'Ecran Fantastique and your book. I would have loved to get one copy but I missed this release. :(
User avatar
lhz
Member
 
Posts: 100
Joined: 30 Oct 2009, 22:50
Location: France

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby alex.sp89 on 24 Feb 2022, 18:01

Jox what do u mean saying "The fully HD version can only be found in the newer Koch Media*. It is old R-rated remaster plus HD unrated bits (which are a bit darker and greenish) or they already remastered the entire French 35mm. Unrated print in HD and we do not see diff. in alternates of video color, darkness and stuff ?
alex.sp89
Member
 
Posts: 359
Joined: 02 Apr 2019, 16:27

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby alex.sp89 on 24 Feb 2022, 20:06

I do not know, maybe it was posted before, but looks very rare VHS

Front.jpg
The Punisher (1989)
Front.jpg (118.34 KiB) Viewed 9272 times
alex.sp89
Member
 
Posts: 359
Joined: 02 Apr 2019, 16:27

Re: THE PUNISHER (Mark Goldblatt, 1989)

Postby alex.sp89 on 24 Feb 2022, 20:07

Back Cover

Back.jpg
The Punisher (1989)
Back.jpg (195.64 KiB) Viewed 9272 times
alex.sp89
Member
 
Posts: 359
Joined: 02 Apr 2019, 16:27

PreviousNext

Return to Dolph's Movies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 52 guests