THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012)

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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (filming)

Postby Tom on 19 Jan 2012, 23:03

You're allowed leighway on PG-13 with swearing. So it's hardly gonna be without any hard language, if needed of course.

As for Chuck. The guy has been retired from films pretty much. Even The Cutter came after a long while after his last feature film. That seemed to be simply for the paycheck. But yeah, his contradicary ideals are strange. Lets not start thinking he's called all the shots though. It's not an unreasonable request. If it was that important then Sly wouldn't have had him in it. But fans demanded Chuck, JC and a few others when casting the first film. I'm glad he's in it.

I'm not a fan of R rated directors cuts either. Sometimes the additions feel needless and for the sake of it. Sometimes the pressure from fans forces producers to backtrack for no good reason. Die Hard 4 was blatantly PG 13. From start to finish, all the way through production. Then the furore happened because of that. Then they tried to make out that it was an R, but the wanted to cut it at the least minute. BS.

Die Hard the directors cut did extend a few cuts for more violence quite well, but mostly to make the DVD an R, they re-dubbed in some swearing and added CGI blood. It didn't feel right, and actually the cutting in the PG 13 flowed better. Sometimes the added R language seemed misplaced too. For example:
PG-13: Bruce- "Hey Dickhead!"
R: Bruce- "Hey fuckhead!"

Now Bruce has always delivered the line Dickhead better than anyone, so actually, that pg-13 line worked. The dubbed in "fuckhead" felt off key. There was a lot like that in the Die Hard recut. So personally, after all that fuss, I still just prefered the flow of the pg-13 version.
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (filming)

Postby dolphage on 20 Jan 2012, 14:14

Tom wrote:It's not an unreasonable request. If it was that important then Sly wouldn't have had him in it. But fans demanded Chuck, JC and a few others when casting the first film. I'm glad he's in it.

That's exactly the problem when all these old action stars get together, there are huge egos and special requests to consider. It worked with the first one because Sly got all the more down to earth, nice action actors together and they fell in line behind him. Now, he's trying to coax in, known dckheads (or fckheads as R-rated John Mclane would say) JCVD, Chuck Norris and (though it fell through) Seagal.

PG-13 Die Hard 4.0 was bullsht. The action is so matiné/kids movie-over the top and Bruce Willis' big calling card line got chopped into: going "Yippie-Kah-Yey-Mother(GUNBLAST)".
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (filming)

Postby Jox on 20 Jan 2012, 14:25

dolphage wrote:PG-13 Die Hard 4.0 was bullsht. The action is so matiné/kids movie-over the top and Bruce Willis' big calling card line got chopped into: going "Yippie-Kah-Yey-Mother(GUNBLAST)".

I don't think the biggest blame was for the PG13 factor, DIE-HARD 4 was so unnecessary, and well not too good, not mentioning Justin Long...
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (filming)

Postby shooby on 20 Jan 2012, 14:32

The PG-13 is a really good thing, Avi Lerner could now show the real poster of the movie, that he hided since the beginning :

Image
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (filming)

Postby dolphage on 20 Jan 2012, 14:43

Jox wrote:I don't think the biggest blame was for the PG13 factor, DIE-HARD 4 was so unnecessary, and well not too good, not mentioning Justin Long...

No, but they are all related. You go Pg-13, you ad a comedy side kick, you make the action cartoonish and kid friendly, it's all to squeeze a little bit of more money out of the theatrical release.

However what Ex 1 proved was that you don't have to go PG-13 that to have a huge box office hit. People responded to that. People loved it.

People would have loved Die Hard 4.0 too, if it hadn't been so... sh*tty.

shooby wrote:The PG-13 is a really good thing, Avi Lerner could now show the real poster of the movie, that he hided since the beginning :

<span>[img]<a%20href="http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/11/33/64/52/ex2pg110.jpg[/img]" class="smarterwiki-linkify">http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/11/33/64/52/ex2pg110.jpg[/img]</a></span>

Nice haha
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (filming)

Postby Tom on 20 Jan 2012, 15:00

Yeah, Die Hard 4 was needless and it probably was mistake making it pg-13 and then trying to make out it was a last minute decision. Clearly it was not actually that close to an R, because the R rated cut had to cram in so many moments, really clumsily, to get that much demanded R.

I do think because it wad McLane and the legacy of the Die Hard films, is that he's always been a bit foul mouthed and when he kills someone he has to get down, dirty and violent, that it's actually part of his character that probably does demand an R more so than for example the Expendables.

All we have with the Expendables is the first film, there's no real history to those characters as yet. None of the characters really had much arc (except maybe Dolph), and the film was a pretty tame R rating. In fact 1 or 2 snips and none of that awful CGI blood, and it would have been PG-13.

I just don't think it should be as much of an issue for The Expendables 2. Granted all these guys have been almost predominently members of the R club, but the success of this film rests mostly on them delivering a really good action film. They can't afford another misfire like the first film.

But yeah, it's on Sly's head now. If this film isn't good, the first thing people will do is tear his ass up over the rating and say he tied a hand behind his back from the beginning.
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (filming)

Postby dolphage on 20 Jan 2012, 20:43

Tom wrote:I just don't think it should be as much of an issue for The Expendables 2. Granted all these guys have been almost predominently members of the R club, but the success of this film rests mostly on them delivering a really good action film. They can't afford another misfire like the first film.

I must disagree, I think it's a VERY big issue, especially for The Expendables, because, as pointed out by most, it wasn't a particularly good movie, it was all CONCEPT. The IDEA of all these guys together in the same, hard R throwback action flick. That's what made it a hit, there was no word of mouth of it ever being a good movie, people couldn't care less about that. But your friend telling you: "Dude, DOlph Lundgren blows a guys entire torso off in the first scene" or "Sly cuts a guys head clean off", that's another story. That's what the people that went to see the Expendables in theaters wanted. Big, dumb, bloody action "hard R style".
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (in post-production

Postby whiteandblank on 22 Jan 2012, 03:03

Agreed with dolphage. The rating doesn't bode well for me.
Although I liked the expendables..
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (in post-production

Postby Jox on 27 Jan 2012, 11:52

Seems Terry Crews like to fuel the controversy...
"It's PG-13. Do you really think only men 40 and over saw the first one? The kids bought tickets to "Eat Pray Love" and walked right into "The Expendables". In fact, they were YOUR kids."

"I get it. I really do. But boobs and blood do not a good movie make. You don't want to go. Don't go. I respect it. But you will miss the greatest thing you've ever seen."

LETTER TO AN EX2 BOYCOTTER:

Sorry we lost you. But hey, when you come out of the 80's, the rest of the world will still be here. On the last one, kids had to sneak into the theater to see it. Now it'll be all you tough guys who are vowing to boycott number 2. See ya in the theater. (Your disguise isn't working).

I don't need anyone speaking for me regarding EX2. The "true action fans" didn't want me in the first place. Now they are acting like they made me. I never was an action star. Ever. But I stood among the best and held my own. Just like I'll stand face to face and toe to toe with anyone who feels they can vote me out. Whether you like it or not, I'm the baddest ass you are ever going to see. Period. I'm ready to die. Are you?
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (in post-production

Postby dolphage on 27 Jan 2012, 15:07

Jox wrote:Seems Terry Crews like to fuel the controversy...
Whether you like it or not, I'm the baddest ass you are ever going to see. Period. I'm ready to die. Are you?

"I'm ready to die. Are you?"? does Mr. Crews take defending Ex2 quite seriously?

Anyway, I'm glad people are picking up on the huge mistake of making it a kids movie, but I'm sure there's enough of a fan base from the first movie that it will be a success. I'll boycott it in the theatre, myself, but I'll ILLEGALLY download it as soon as I can.

That's right, I said "ILLEGALLY download"! I'm ready to die. Are you?
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (in post-production

Postby Nathan on 27 Jan 2012, 19:35

What a dick. He does realise that all his scenes would basically be cut in a PG-13 version of the first film? Someone doesn't know when to shut the fuck up. Luckily nobody knows who he is and not too many people will see that haha. Me? I was up for Fiddy, I don't see the difference between him and Crews. It's just a pity Van Damme, Seagal and Snipes weren't around for the first film, but then again if JC was, we may not have got Gunnar Jensen the way we did, so I guess we have to be thankful for that.
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (in post-production

Postby Jox on 27 Jan 2012, 19:38

Patrick Campbell - I understand you and I feel you. All I have been saying is give EX2 a chance. I love rated R movies, and EX1 is no exception. If it works it works. If it doesn't there won't be another one, plain and simple- but you can't judge something YOU HAVEN'T SEEN. Certain people have been attacking me for saying just that, and I responded to various comments that I felt where out of line. But to a respectful fan such as yourself, I wanted to let you know that I feel your pain and I believe in my heart not one true Expendables fan will be disappointed.


I'm torn on this matter.
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (in post-production

Postby Tom on 27 Jan 2012, 23:15

They really have screwed the pooch here. My major concern has always been how good this will be. The rating won't bother me too much if the film rocks, because in retrospect, The Expendables wasn't a great film by any stretch of the imagination. The script was awful and it was too choppy. However it coasted by on its personalities.

But the way they've handled all this has been really poor. I mean surely, they should have learnt from Die Hard 4 that this kind of thing causes a lot of animosity with fans. In the end Willis took it upon himself to side with the fans and distance himself from the rating fiasco, and there was quick promise of the R cut on DVD.

The thing is, now all the blame is shifting onto Chuck Norris. He doesn't run Nu Image, it's not his puppy. He might have demanded some shit, but he probably wasn't the only star in this to make demands. This is also a mistake. The damage limitation is non existent, never mind Terry Crews arguing with fans. The most problematic thing though, is the fact the people behind the film, including Sly, aren't listening to the fans. That's a mistake and it might cost them success and a 3rd film. If they set their stall out for PG13 from the beginning of shooting, then it's too late to rectify, because if they try to do a post-producting R rating, it'll suck major balls...far worse than PG 13. Dubbed in swearing and CGI blood. God no.

The thing is I totally get why people are really pissed. Lets face it, 80's action movies weren't about quality often. They're escapism, fantasy and a big ingredient is the violence and the language. Part of the difference in pg-13 and R violence is the intent. Intent of violence plays a key part. And I did think back to Chuck in Invasion Usa. That film rocked. Why? Mostly because of the insanely manliness of it, the nastiness of it and the most ridiculously villainous villain you can think of. He's really a total "c**t" As good as JC might be, there just might be something reigning him in because of the rating. Then again we can hope for another Joker perhaps. But yeah, if the film isn't good then two key action fall backs: violence, and harsh language, aren't there.

The first film was only a few trims from being PG 13 though, certainly the theatrical cut. As a UK resident, the Expendables was a 15 here in cinemas. I expect that to be the case with The Expendables 2. I don't actually think there'll be a lot of difference, but actually, thinking about it, and what fans wanted after the 1st. This should be MORE violent. A lot of people hated how soft the Expendables turned out. We weren't expecting Rambo 4 again, but it was still soft.
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Re: THE EXPENDABLES 2 (Simon West, 2012) (in post-production

Postby Ringy on 28 Jan 2012, 13:04

Japan
Distributor: Pony Canyon, Inc./Shochiku Co., Ltd.
Release date: August(rumor)
aka Hanako
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