Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

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Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby Scifibuff5 on 20 May 2021, 04:30

Just a general discussion of the man's films which contain alternate footage or cuts depending on the region. I own the producers cuts of Punisher and Johnny Mnemonic and I got's to say that they're both much improved with those intended edits inserted back into either films.
"No, I haven't seen any of [the new 'Punisher' movies]," - Dolph in 2009 MTV News Interview
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby Jox on 20 May 2021, 14:19

An interesting topic...!
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby Jox on 29 May 2021, 10:45

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPZKk1NFv-D/
robert_longo_studio

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26 years after the original release of Johnny Mnemonic I’ve converted the film into black & white. It will premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival on June 11th, co-hosted by Rockaway Film Festival. This black & white version is a bit closer to my original intention, but in 1995 the film industry “powers that be” weren’t ready, so this version is a bit of a redemption for me. I’m thrilled that William Gibson and Keanu both like it too. Can’t wait for everyone to see it.


https://tribecafilm.com/films/johnny-mnemonic-2021
FEATURE | 96 MINUTES
JOHNNY MNEMONIC

The first and only feature film from visual artist Robert Longo, Johnny Mnemonic is a sci-fi prophecy of the current world. Johnny, played by a pre-Matrix Keanu Reeves, is a human data courier in the dystopic future 2021. He battles corrupt corporations and internet overlords during a global pandemic, all to recover the memories he exchanged for data storage.

26 years after its original release Robert Longo has revisited his cult classic Johnny Mnemonic, converting it into black & white. This marks the premiere of Longo’s black & white version of the film.
Co-hosted by Rockaway Film Festival
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby Jox on 10 Jun 2021, 21:29

Interview:
Room Service Redeemed: Robert Longo Revisits Johnny Mnemonic
https://www.screenslate.com/articles/ro ... y-mnemonic

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Excerpts:
Patrick Dahl: I watched the black-and-white cut last night. It's really fantastic and I'm excited for other people to see it. What led you to consider doing this now?
Robert Longo: Well, I always had this fantasy that on the 25th anniversary I would try to get some redemption in relation to this film, because making it was really difficult. And I, at one point, thought about re-editing, but then I realized if I just turned it black-and-white that would be the best, easiest thing to do, and the most radical way of kind of imprinting how I really wanted it, because I wanted to make it in black-and-white originally. I wanted it to be like a contemporary version of Alphaville or something like that. Anyway, the movie, by dealing with Hollywood, had gotten out of control. Keanu had just blown up with Speed. Tristar wanted it to be their summer movie. It was kind of crazy. For me, for William, and for Keanu, this is a bit of redemption. They really love this new black-and-white conversion. And it looks like a shitty, million-dollar movie. It has a bit of a grunge to it and an attitude to it, which I think is really great.

Completely. The black-and-white knocks several million dollars off of the price tag.
Yes, it does, in a good way.

Originally, when I decided to make this black-and-white conversion, I ripped a Blu-ray and turned it black-and-white. I contacted one of the film’s original producers who was also a good guy, Don Carmody. I said to him, "I'm doing this, and I'm going to dump it on the 25th anniversary. I'm going to dump it on YouTube,” or something like that. And he said, "Wait, let me see it." So, I sent it to him, and he got really excited. "This is really great. We should show this to Sony." I hesitated to get Sony involved at first, but the problem with the Blu-ray version is that the quality would not be good enough to project it in a theater. So, Sony gave us the footage to work from, and they may release this new version on Blu-ray There's never been a director's cut. Ironically, there is a version that some people misunderstand to be a “director's cut,” the Japanese version of it, but it's not a director's cut. It's basically got more Takeshi Kitano in it. That's basically what it is.

So, I got the hi-res footage from the studio, and we graded it into black-and-white. I worked with Cyrus Stowe, who was the colorist on this version. Basically, we went through it scene-by-scene, and he was really great. He's really a very talented guy.
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby Jox on 30 Sep 2021, 20:29

Sylvester Stallone’s ‘Rocky IV: Rocky Vs. Drago’ Ultimate Director’s Cut Hitting Theaters & Digital
https://deadline.com/2021/09/sylvester- ... 234847353/
Sylvester Stallone has made an ultimate director’s cut of Rocky IV, entitled Rocky vs. Drago which will hit theaters on Nov. 11 for an exclusive engagement via MGM and Fathom followed by the feature being available on digital demand on Nov. 12.

Stallone has added 40 minutes of never-before-seen footage to the 1985 feature made during the U.S. Cold War with the Soviet Union, the movie having the Italian Stallion traveling to the USSR to defend his title again against Ivan Drago (Dolph Lundgren). Stallone wrote, directed and starred in the film which grossed over $300M WW back in the day.

Stallone will broadcast live a Q&A in select Fathom locations nationwide along with a behind-the-scenes look at the making of the recut film. Tickets are on sale today and a complete list of theater locations are available on the Fathom Events website.

Trailer:



EDIT:
Full press release: https://screen-connections.com/2021/09/ ... e-details/

Tickets available here: https://www.fathomevents.com/events/Roc ... -Vs.-Drago

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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby alex.sp89 on 05 Oct 2021, 12:02

Pretty much all his movies in late '80s and 90's have alternate cuts.

Masters of the Universe -130 some minutes workprint,
Red Scorpion a lot of cuts during post prod.
The Punisher - 89 min. R-rated, 90 min. Unrated, 97 min. workprint
Showdown in Little Tokyo - 78 min r-rated, 79 min. unrated, 90 min. director's cut
Unisol - 104 min released version and a lot of cuts especially with Dolph scenes (shorten scenes, u can hear the commentary of Devlin and Roland on Blu ray)
Joshua Tree ( Army of One, vanishing Red) - 102min R-rated, 107 Unrated
, 100 min. german local version
The Shooter ( Hidden Assassin) 89 min US cut, 104 min. International original version
Johnny Mnemonic - 97 min. Us, 103 min Japan
The Minion - 96 min. US cut , 91 min. Producers cut
Sweepers - 97 min. released version a lot of cuts during post prod.
Agent Red - 95 min released cut, 100 min. unwatchable workprint ( real Damian Lee work as director)
Jill Rips - 95 min released version a lot of cut during post prod.
Retrograde - 93 min. Kulikowski cut iI don't know the runtime exactly

And many others...
I was wondering if Don't Kill It was originally longer ?
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby Jox on 05 Oct 2021, 13:15

Workprints don't really count otherwise every single released film went through various workprint stages (which often no longer exist in any form or shape)...

And for instance the PUNISHER workprint is not the director's cut, which is the unrated version (released in France and Japan and that is only 20 seconds longer than the R-rated).

So I wouldn't count the alternate versions cut for censorship either.

What I consider a proper alternate version would be a version of a film that's been released officially in a territory and that's significantly different from the uncut/unrated cut of that movie.

Therefore here is my list of the main titles with alternate / extended cuts:

ROCKY IV: ROCKY VS. DRAGO coming November 2021

JOSHUA TREE / ARMY OF ONE

JOHNNY MNEMONIC

THE SHOOTER / HIDDEN ASSASSIN

THE MINION

THE INQUIRY

THE EXPENDABLES

SMALL APARTMENTS

THE EXPENDABLES 3

WAR PIGS

THE TRACKER
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby alex.sp89 on 05 Oct 2021, 13:49

The only one I never heard is War Pigs . Just checked it on imdb and yes US cut is 87 minutes instead of 91 minutes European. These US shorten cuts of recent Stallone, Bruce Willis and Dolph Lundgren movies are not understandable for me. Mainly just to give these stars more screen time because they spend little time on set during shooting and it feels they are absent too much from the movie compared to the supporting cast. The second reason pacing. Jackie Chan's US cuts are more obvious why they were cut so badly- in the US companies think that Chan's comedy is too much, typical asian music and very long action seq. But again as I said they chop Jackie really bad.
The good thing today is that u can put together some deleted scenes from blu ray, dvd and make your own version.Especially when video quality of deleted scenes is in HD or the same as the motion picture released version. FanCuts sometimes are welcomed especially in horror movies

I have a feeling that many companies are going to start making extended, alternate cuts of their movies made in 80s-90s. They hide in vaults many original footages, reels. Bt it is going to happen closer to 40-50 years anniversary when the most people who worked on it will be gone. Many Sly, Dolph, Van Damme, Arnold etc movies have been cut mainly for runtime to give more screenings during theatrical cut to make more money. Rambo 1-3, Hard Target, Cobra , teen drama Back to the Future starring Eric Stoltz instead of Michael J Fox as the lead character Marty McFly Demolition Man etc. As soon they (film studios) will realise they could make money of it all archives will be open for recuts and any other alterations. The only obstacle is the time 20-30 years is not that long. 50 years pass is something. Look at Spartacus, Cleopatra, all Sergio Leone movies from 60s-80s are now cult and reconstructed frame by frame using original notes, scripts etc
Last edited by alex.sp89 on 05 Oct 2021, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby JuV on 05 Oct 2021, 19:58

alex.sp89 wrote:The only one I never heard is War Pigs . Just checked it on imdb and yes US cut is 87 minutes instead of 91 minutes European.


Probably the info on IMDb is NTSC and the runtime for the EU one is from a PAL source.

Jox wrote:Workprints don't really count otherwise every single released film went through various workprint stages (which often no longer exist in any form or shape)...


Altho (almost) every film has workprints I would definitely mention publicly released, leaked, etc workprints here to have it all listed/complete.
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby alex.sp89 on 05 Oct 2021, 20:23

It looks like Jox is having a workprint version of Men of war (1994) with alternate scenes. I just found this in this bonus special feature

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA1MNw_SG3U

If yes Jox is this version very different than the released one ? Please share with us with some of your thoughts

If ROCKY IV DC is going to have big success we are going to have a new wave of alternate cuts .Sly is actually a pioneer in this new type of job. I don't remember any other classic cult movie that was so much reworked/recut in all aspects- usually it was just extensions . He did it with Rambo 4, The Expendables (2010) but this movies didn't achieve the status of Rocky 4 and were released the next 1-2 years after theatrical run. Zack Snyder's Justice League was a promoter of it , now Batman Forever (1995) Joel Schumacher 180 mins cut is in talk. Let;s see what is Sly's contribution to all this movements... He is a smart guy and he already did once what looked imposible 15 years ago ( more a fan dream) - to put together all action stars from 80s-90s with Expendables (2010). It worked perfectly...
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby Jox on 05 Oct 2021, 23:33

JuV wrote:Probably the info on IMDb is NTSC and the runtime for the EU one is from a PAL source.

It's not, I have several editions of the film and there's 4 minutes cut in the US version compared to the German/UK release (and with HD running at 24 frames per second, there's no longer those time speed differences that PAL and NTSC video had)...

alex.sp89 wrote:It looks like Jox is having a workprint version of Men of war (1994) with alternate scenes. I just found this in this bonus special feature

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA1MNw_SG3U

If yes Jox is this version very different than the released one ? Please share with us with some of your thoughts

Good eye, but the couple of timecoded clips you see in there are NOT from a workprint:
they're from a tape that the French distributor had featuring 8 or 10 minutes of dailies (image only, no sound) sent during production...
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby JuV on 06 Oct 2021, 11:18

Jox wrote:
JuV wrote:Probably the info on IMDb is NTSC and the runtime for the EU one is from a PAL source.

It's not, I have several editions of the film and there's 4 minutes cut in the US version compared to the German/UK release (and with HD running at 24 frames per second, there's no longer those time speed differences that PAL and NTSC video had)...


Okay my bad :? wasn't aware that they cut 4 minutes, I'm guessing to tighten the film a little or something? PAL and NTSC is still a thing on dvd's tho and i've seen plenty of wrong information on IMDb (especially on low budget, indie and DTV films) that's why i guessed it might've been that.
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby dude hallenbeck on 08 Oct 2021, 15:56

I wonder if there is any other Snyder cut level different films Dolph's cataoluge has that can come to light one day. I'd heard Retrograde has a significantly different version, but I can't imagine it being a huge improvement.
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby alex.sp89 on 08 Oct 2021, 18:42

I must admit Johnny Mnemonic could be very different than the US and Japan version. The only obstacle is studio holding original reels in vaults.
The second movie I would say Showdown in Little Tokyo (1991). Original Mark L Lester Cut which is 90 minutes instead of 78 minutes released version. Mostly are just extensions and different editing of scenes, One more important thing is the order of scenes and story is more coherent. In released version they switched the orders all over creating unlogical goofs. The main reason why they did that is to make Brandon Lee the second lead. Originally movie was more about Dolph Lundgren character.
But SNYDER CUT is unique . Maybe Back to the Future (1985) starring different lead actor Eric Stoltz and teen drama instead of comedy could be another good example but this is not about Dolph...
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Re: Alternative Cuts of Dolph's films

Postby Jox on 08 Oct 2021, 20:57

alex.sp89 wrote:I must admit Johnny Mnemonic could be very different than the US and Japan version. The only obstacle is studio holding original reels in vaults.

Well even to his surprise, Sony just let Robert Longo go back to it to make his proper black-and-white-graded version (which is supposed to come out on disc soon), but he didn't change the edit so I guess he didn't have it in him to really go through the process of cutting a new version again...
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