A CERTAIN JUSTICE / PUNCTURE WOUNDS (Serafini/Coyne), 2013)

[Jox]

:shock:
That's .... sober (and ugly at the same time).

Ugly is a perfect word for CERTAIN JUSTICE, I wouldn't care if they had put a turd on the cover...

[bomaz]

New french cover (I can't know if it's uglier or not).

[dolphage]

:shock:
That's .... sober (and ugly at the same time).

Ugly is a perfect word for CERTAIN JUSTICE, I wouldn't care if they had put a turd on the cover...

It's wild how much you hate this movie!
I'm mean, it's bad, but is it THAT bad, to you?

[Jox]

I do for some reason... and I know I'm not being fair or objective at all in this case, which is why I need to revisit it with more distance than the first time I saw it so that I can tell if I really find it that appaling...
(I've been able to forgive or make excuses for some bad DL movies in the past that somehow didn't get to me on a personal level like this one did)

[dude hallenbeck]

You're abslotely right to hate it. It's a disgusting, misogynist film.

[savagesketch]

I do for some reason... and I know I'm not being fair or objective at all in this case, which is why I need to revisit it with more distance than the first time I saw it so that I can tell if I really find it that appaling...
(I've been able to forgive or make excuses for some bad DL movies in the past that somehow didn't get to me on a personal level like this one did)

It was such an odd role, especially for D. I have no problem with him playing a villain, but he was such an ugly despicable villain that really didn't exude Dolph. Playing a pimp? Sure. But here he was just that -- a one note pimp that D was simply phoning in. If D signed on for the role last minute, then at least create another character in the script in which Dolph could truly shine.

Here was an idea... Why couldn't D play the mentor figure to Cung Li's character? Someone who trained Li prior to his war experiences who Cung Li could use as a resource later on... And cast Vinnie Jones as the pimp... especially since the character Vinnie Jones played had no purpose to the plot at all...

[dolphage]

You're abslotely right to hate it. It's a disgusting, misogynist film.

Why is the film misogynist? I would agree that the bad guys are (which is great, for the movie), but why is the film itself misogynist?

It was such an odd role, especially for D. I have no problem with him playing a villain, but he was such an ugly despicable villain that really didn't exude Dolph. Playing a pimp? Sure. But here he was just that -- a one note pimp that D was simply phoning in. If D signed on for the role last minute, then at least create another character in the script in which Dolph could truly shine.

Why should the villain not be despicable?

It's bullshit saying that Dolph was phoning in his performance in this movie. He's the only good thing in it. His character is really fresh (as in "hasn't been done that way before"). He's mean, scary and unusual. He truly "shines".

It's a bad movie, but Dolph is really good in it.

[Jox]

Here are my thoughts in a ramble:

Of course Dolph does his best as usual, but the (non-existant) characterization and dialogue he's given to work with is really weak and stupid. It's like the "how not to write a villain", making him "bad to be bad", and curse just for the sake of it. I don't have the lines on the top of my head but that's kind of what I remember thinking. The villain can be despicable but he can be and and we'll "love to hate him" which is not the case here, where it's on the nose and just for the sake of it. As if a despicable character had to say or comment saying "I'm the bad guy and I'm an asshole"... just show it in smart, interesting, coherent way

Usually he can save the film but not here I don't think, I'll just save his look (which I think he came up with, not the bozos - after the shoot he even wanted to give Gunnar a similar appearance for EX3)

[dude hallenbeck]

You're abslotely right to hate it. It's a disgusting, misogynist film.

Why is the film misogynist? I would agree that the bad guys are (which is great, for the movie), but why is the film itself misogynist?

Because in the entire Serafini/Capaldi "trilogy" every female role is that of a bimbo eye candy, a traitor or a woman who exists to be raped/killed. I'm not one of those Social Justice types that complains about womens roles in every film (In fact I despise those types), but even for me hearing women be called "bitch" and "whore" for the entire running time is exhausting.

Then you combine that the expectation that I have to enjoy these idiots acting like fucking Tarantino fucking badass fucking characters while drinking hard booze and shooting up heroin because they're such gangsters as well as atrocious scenes like Cung Le's family being raped and burned alive mid way through just for shock value and it just exemplifies the shitty attitude the bozo film makers have.

[dolphage]

Because in the entire Serafini/Capaldi "trilogy" every female role is that of a bimbo eye candy, a traitor or a woman who exists to be raped/killed. I'm not one of those Social Justice types that complains about womens roles in every film (In fact I despise those types), but even for me hearing women be called "bitch" and "whore" for the entire running time is exhausting..

I'm not sure what kind of cool, tough feminist icons you think women are in the the actual underworld but that there are characters in the movie that only serve a very simple purpose is a device used by all movies ever. Characters exist only to be raped or killed or to provide information to further the story.

The fact that the roles in the movie are not expertly written is not limited to the women's roles.

I'm sorry that it's exhausting for you to hear women being called "bitches", but as long as you don't get exhausted from seeing men beaten,tortured and killed (for very little reason and with NO consequences) or portrayed as evil, violent psychopaths at least you can get through almost every action movie in existence without exhaustion setting in. So that's a plus.

I'm just trying to understand the extreme hate for this film and I think I get it. It's a feminist thing, right? It's more emotional than logical, maybe? -Which is fine, btw, but it's just not my thing.

To me it's just another disappointing, kinda shitty action movie, not so much a display of power from the evil Patriarchy.

[Jox]

I think the hate comes from a mixture of many things that are off and can make you hate it in a pure non-logical way which to me comes from everything resulting of what I'd call "bad taste" and gratuitous complacency in its filthy world, and what seems to be the conception of what us dumb action fans audiences should like and expect (bring on the bad metal soundtrack and cheap beer). It's like if they thought people watching these movies are just as dumb and scum-like as the characters...

Or in other words like 'dude' really put it well:

Then you combine that the expectation that I have to enjoy these idiots acting like fucking Tarantino fucking badass fucking characters while drinking hard booze and shooting up heroin because they're such gangsters as well as atrocious scenes like Cung Le's family being raped and burned alive mid way through just for shock value and it just exemplifies the shitty attitude the bozo film makers have.

[dolphage]

Right, it's a shitty film! We agree on that!

[Jox]

But you're right, there's something with this one other than being shitty that calls for some of us to really hate it in a visceral way more so than other shitty movies...

[dude hallenbeck]

I'm not sure what kind of cool, tough feminist icons you think women are in the the actual underworld but that there are characters in the movie that only serve a very simple purpose is a device used by all movies ever. Characters exist only to be raped or killed or to provide information to further the story.

Again, I'm not one of those feminist types. But after three films of the same thing it's very clear what the film makers views on women are.

I'm sorry that it's exhausting for you to hear women being called "bitches", but as long as you don't get exhausted from seeing men beaten,tortured and killed (for very little reason and with NO consequences) or portrayed as evil, violent psychopaths at least you can get through almost every action movie in existence without exhaustion setting in. So that's a plus.

At least with male characters, theres Dolph in the first two and Cung Le in the last one that are actually decent human beings.

I'm just trying to understand the extreme hate for this film and I think I get it. It's a feminist thing, right? It's more emotional than logical, maybe? -Which is fine, btw, but it's just not my thing.

To me it's just another disappointing, kinda shitty action movie, not so much a display of power from the evil Patriarchy.

I ultimately hate the film because it's terrible. I really don't believe in this patriarchy holding women down bullshit, just that the film makers themselves are immature idiots.

[Jox]

Writer & co-director James Coyne moved the ranks of HOllywood to pen SHELOCK HOLMES 3 after one of his scripts went through the infamous "Black List" and he got to do TREASURE ISLAND for Warner Bros...